Caer Ibormeith wrote:
I think the need for self-expression was the key, along with reflective introspection and an awareness of the world and culture around them. That's the definition of art in general, although I'm applying it to musicians in particular. The impulse was the same in both the US and UK, but the artists were informed by the place and history they came from. How truly punk. In the US, this movement had been around for almost 20 years, especially in New York. Every time I see a kid wearing a CBGBs Tee shirt I smile. They get it. The ethos of it, I mean.
I think you're right. For the UK some of it was social/political. People wanted to break out of the very 'me me me' culture of the eighties. It sort of coincided with the downfall of Thatcherism at exactly the same time. Also cities to the north and perhaps the south west of Britain hadn't really seen much of the benefit of economic growth as much as the south east- but had to face all the boom/bust cycles of the time as well. It's no surprise that the UK's second biggest metropolitan area- Greater Manchester was the hub for all this 'artisitc' reaction. I was also going to mention NY's CBGB's earlier on Sandy, because I think The Hacienda was a similar thing for the UK in terms of just a musical 'hub' that created musical movements.
Caer Ibormeith wrote:As to KW's point about some American bands gaining popularity first in the UK, and vice versa. I think it's that we've always influenced each other musically, always had a healthy competition (a kind of "Ha ha. I did it first" thing). It made the music better and drove it be forward looking on both sides. Also, a fusion of R & B and Celtic rhythms is the backbone of rock in the US, so we're used to hearing a particular beat, even in folk rock. If a band doesn't have that underlying rhythm, it may take us awhile to get used to it. Even if it comes in an American package. It's the reason a band like U2 was huge in America very early (1980), but not so popular in the UK and Europe until later. It's learning how to hear differently in a way.
I also think that's very true, though to be fair to the US- the US created rock/pop music in the first place. It had nothing to do with the UK. America gets the ultimate prize for the invention! It started to come over here after the war across the Atlantic, during the 1950's, and became immensely popular. What the Brits did was initially emulate it and then put their own spin on it, evolving a home grown style that was also culturally 'British' influenced. It's been a somewhat two way thing since then, with both sides influencing the other to some degree. It's a healthy relationship. Re the US/UK 'making it' over 'here or there' example that Bonnie alluded to. My own take is that it's probably easier for a band to get a break in the UK. It's a smaller market. The US is a
much bigger market. To get an audience to like you in the US is a bit like turning a large super tanker around- in the UK it's a slightly smaller boat to manoeuvre. For UK bands, 'breaking it' in the US is often
the golden chalice, but it's also quite hard for them to do- even for bands that have already had major successes inside and also outside the UK around the world. However, if you do get a presence in the UK you get recognised and noticed, so it helps you promote yourself abroad. My assumption is that sometimes it might be easier for a foreign band to get their first steps on the ladder in the UK- just as a career choice. Also, I guess, some of it is cultural. For example The Kings of Leon have a sound that is going to be immediately liked in the UK with certain demographics- particularly indie. They also came along at the right time, when that style of music had become popular here. Vampire Weekend are another American band that made a name for themselves here first. Some of it's also maybe about wanting to get some other influences by going somewhere else, for both sides. Paul Simon deliberately spent time in the UK when he was younger, just soaking up the scene, then going back to the US and combining both American and also British influences to his music- hence probably why Simon and Garfunkel sounded so unique. British or Irish bands have also gone to the US to get the same experience- like U2.
Caer Ibormeith wrote:Also, dance music, with it's faintly disco overtones, was not as popular in the US as in the UK in the late 80s and early 90s. I think people may have had a bit of a hangover from the 70s, culturally and musically. AIDs had hit the scene and a lot of people from the disco era were dead or dying in the 80s, so the country was in a more introspective frame of mind.
That's interesting. To be honest I thought the reason was that the dance scene explosion in the late 80's/90's was just
too 'European' in sound. It was something that came out of Europe and was very specific to European culture of the time. European countries each had their own different take on it (the sound would differ slightly depending on where you lived), but that particular European dance 'sound' overall wasn't something that I think American culture could really identify with itself at the outset- understandably so. Also, in the beginning some (but by no means all) of it was really bad! It took me a while to identify with some of it myself. What's interesting to me, from the British side, is that in the UK both that particular dance scene (originally Acid House) and that new indie rock renaissance happened at exactly the same time, and around one another- even sometimes influencing or combining with one another. Yet both are
very different forms of music at their roots.
Caer Ibormeith wrote:I'm sure I've only scratched the musical surface, but that's my brief take on why the UK bands that hit it really big here were The Cure,The Smiths, the Psychedelic Furs, Elvis Costello, The Police, Depeche Mode, New Order, and the like.
Then I'd say Americans have very good taste then! I could list many American bands that made it over here as well over the years, but there's way too many of them to even think about where I'd begin...
Caer Ibormeith wrote:Gosh, this is a long, serious post.
Nothing wrong with that says Dragon ( cough
). But apart from that it's nice to have a three way discussion on here about a topic we all like, where we all completely agree and add interesting asides from our own perspectives.
Don't mess with the Bunny.
When was that from? I think 2004.
A great Boston band, KW.
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